Friday, July 22, 2005

Well, obviously I couldn't keep this whole business from my wife for very long. She noticed my behavior was off and we had The Talk. I tried to be gentle and said I was thinking about becoming not frum but didn't tell her quite how far things have gone already. It didn't matter. She went ballistic. She couldn't care less about my 'terutzim' (as she put it). She took the kids and headed for her parent's house. She hasn't taken my calls.

In case you're thinking that her quick reaction is a siman that there were problems already, you are completely wrong. We have (had?) an excellent marriage. She's just very frum and she can't deal with this. I have no taineh to her.

While I'm mentioning a lack of tainehs, I also want to strenuously disagree with those who have said nasty things about the signers of the Slifkin ban and especially those who wrote against RME. I repeat: They represent Yiddishkeit the way it is. It isn't their fault that chazal believed the world is flat and bats lay eggs etc. Do you expect them to lie? They don't have an obligation to say what I need to hear or what will keep my marriage together. They need to speak the truth about Yiddishkeit. If that truth makes people realize that yiddishkeit is only for people who believe the world is flat, adaraba, that shows their yashrus.

As for RME, what do you expect? That he should get up and say that all the rabbanim who are against science are wrong? I don't know if he believes that or not. But even if he does, the matzav is that nobody can say that out loud. I don't expect RME or anybody else to stick their neck out just to say what I want to hear. I would actually find that patronizing.

It is interesting that some of those rabbanim who realize that we can't disregard science and that we can't farenfer all the gemaras that indicate that chazal had faulty knowledge of science are in some sense in a similar position as me. They have now been forced underground with their apikorsishe views. Maybe they tell themselves that they're not underground, they just don't want to be mekalkel those who aren't ready to hear this apikorsus. But that is really just terutzim. Perhaps if they were younger like me, they'd reach the same conclusion as me. I don't know.

Anyway, I'm trying to distract myself. For now, I'm facing a very lonely shabbos myself in this apartment. Nobody knows what happened and I don't want to discuss it with them, so I'll just hang at home. I'm very doubtful that I'll be makpid on this shabbos like last. Seudos I for sure won't have. It'll be tempting to blog but I probably won't. (If I do, I'll say right away how long it took to write it, so those who are makpid on bichdei sheyase also for a yisrael, will know how long to wait.)

A Gitten Shabbos to all.

24 Comments:

At 11:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tears.

 
At 11:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope you don't leave Orthodox Judaism. I hope you do have a talk with Rabbi Eisemann.
However if you do become not frum, at least let the signers of the ban & Rabbi Feldman know how they affected your Yiddishkeit.
One of the pretenses for signing the ban was the claim that Slifkin's books caused two Bachurim to go off the derech. Let them know that there is as much if not more danger the other way.

 
At 7:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How was Shabbos? How are you surviving?

 
At 9:00 PM, Blogger Rebeljew said...

EZR

Fascinating story, though not totally believable. The message is very real however; if our leaders don't get real, they will destroy the very seeds that they are trying to grow.

If the story is even partially true, you have my utmost sympathies, and I hope, for the sake of the children, that you and your wife can come to some accomodations. Children are devastated in divorces. Even religious issues should not override their interests.

See http://rebeljew.blogspot.com/2005/06/why-rebel.html to understand the extent of this phenomenon.

 
At 9:35 AM, Blogger Rebeljew said...

DBH - The part I liked was "rumors of my non-existence have been greatly exaggerated"

A Charedi who is familiar with Twain or popular culture?

While the story is weak in setting, it is does do a good job of isolating the issue of the Ban and carrying it ad absurdum.

 
At 10:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"DarkBlueHat said... Not remotely believable."

DBH - I hope you are right. That would mean that there is one less person going through Gehinnom now.

However, consider the following:

A few years ago, an unusual novel was published: "With All My Heart, With All My Soul" It was written by a certain Rav under a pseudonym. A friend of mine helped to get it published. As a novel, it is not Graham Greene, but it has its unique charms.

Among other things, it is a "frum novel" that describes how a non-conformist yeshivishe iluy and a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant young lady named Christine Mellowrand fall in love with each other. There have been many reactions to this novel. Eichler's in Boro Park received many returned copies from buyers who were very dissatisfied [on the frumkeit side] and began selling it behind the counter, by request only.

The reactions that are germaine here, however, are those that came from two different acquaintances of mine: One was a young married woman with a master's; the other was a much older fellow, who had previously been a rebbe at a well-known yeshiva, who had run a successful business for many years, a deep and serious person who never gives up his search for a deeper emes.

Neither one of them was happy with the book.

The young woman felt that it was totally unrealistic that the yeshiva iluy would fall in love with the WASP.

The older man could not finish the book. He told me that he knew people who had gone through just such situations and had gone off the derech, and it was too painful for him to be reminded of them, even in a fictional context.

DBH, I don't know how old you are (I am over 40), but you will live and learn that people will sometimes do things that seem completely unbelievable.

I hope you are right that EZR is a fiction, but the possibility that he is not is what prompted Rav Eisemann to reach out to him and demands our sympathy and concern.

 
At 11:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pardon me, "germane."

 
At 4:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why not do what I've been doing? Keep up the facade. Where are you running?
Does your lack of belief allow you to lose your wife and children?
Didn't your parents give you enough, that you can engage in a bit of dishonesty for them?
You can be happy frum or non-frum. Anyone who thinks that belief is the only factor in judaism is fooling themselves.


P.S. I was thunderstruck that R' Eisemann, who is a great man, would open himself up like that.
I am mortified at the lack of respect he was shown.

 
At 6:24 AM, Blogger Rebeljew said...

No, the "gedolim" will not blog here. For one thing, they are not interested in the ramblings or thoguhts of the hoi polloi. They speak, we listen, or we can go to Gehinom as one commenter here put it. Second, at least two of the commenters here were not thoroughly convinced that EZR is anything more than a persona created to draw fire from commenters and see if it can get the gedolim to respond. If mortal humans could see through it, what makes you think that omniscient superhuman "gedolim" would be taken by it?

 
At 6:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is absolutely no reason, rebeljew, for anyone to engage in dialogue in such a forum. It was shockingly magnanimous of RME to even try, and we see the result don't we?
And there is gap between "Not interested in ramblings" and "listen or go to hell".
I also think EZR is an invented persona, but it was invented for a reason, and I'm reponding to that.

 
At 8:55 AM, Blogger Rebeljew said...

zits flaish

Obviously, if EZR is a persona then that is all any of us are doing. But you cannot deny that the proper Charedi attitude is "listen or go to hell". Isn't that the message of the Ban? Listen to our interpretation and believe it or literally go to hell? Isn't that the message to R' Slifkin, as well?

Isn't the further message that they need not be interested in the thoughts and attitudes of others, even if the arguments of us mortal simpletons are stronger than their own? Isn't the message that if you are on the right side, you can spew the most absurd nonsense, and oppose established facts, without owing anyone an explanation? Is there a longer string of rhetorical questions anywhere on this subject?

 
At 11:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It doesn't look to me like R' Eisemnam was saying "Listen or go to hell".

 
At 2:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eliyahu Zecharia,
Are you still alive?

 
At 2:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not according to DBH. Things are a bit upside down now but I hope to update soon. Thanks for asking.

EZR

 
At 4:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looking forward.

 
At 7:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So I ran a poll of the women I know, since this is a interesting discussion. None of them say they would leave their husbands in such a situation.
You may claim you didn't have problems, but a relationship that can't survive a little doubt makes one wonder.
I'm glad your voyage to freedom won't be anchored by an ancient superstitious woman.

 
At 9:34 AM, Blogger Rebeljew said...

DBH
Great stuff.

Beyond putting the global problem ahead of his own, he puts them ahead of his children's lives and so does his wife. I have rarely met a woman who would do that.

Women stay through drug abuse, beating, cheating, and incarceration. All this situation would take is a little accommodation here and there, at least as a first response. Most women also look at the situation and say where will a find a shidduch now that I am divorced and beat themselves up with that for a while. So here, her first response is "to hell with what it does my life, my kids, my future, I am leaving without even thinking it over."

 
At 7:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eliyahu Zecharia -

Any updates before Shabbos?

 
At 8:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Much to report -- some of it even good. But no time. Hopefully after shabbos.

 
At 8:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rebel - The wife just left for Shabbos. That part was believable. Someone smart would have told her on Shabbos, not the day beforehand, but we all agree Eliyahu is an idiot, as in the kid behind him. A smarter author would have contacted all the readers of the blog to get their feedback and find ways to improve the story. Call Rabbi Eisemann, and tell him you got his number by reading the blog. Without telling him you are "The Blogger", get information from him to make the story more realistic. He didn't do it because he had nothing to learn. Idiots tend to be arrogant and don't even know what they don't know.

 
At 5:31 AM, Blogger mnuez said...

I conceed. There actually is a ribono shel olam and he's very very sad that I used the word 'fuck' in a previous post. In punishment for such nivul etzbaos he just relegated the sfiros of cyberspace to delete a brilliant comment that would have appeared in this space. It is indeed time for tshuva. Fuck.


(I guess my next brilliant post won't make it to the boards either. F---.)

your loving mnuez

 
At 8:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

EZR,

What happenned next? You're keeping us in suspense!

 
At 4:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Enjoyed a lot! »

 
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